09 August 2011

New dichotomy under fire

Today, Tisha B'av, calls for some customary grieving, but also, for some people like yours truly, serves as a powerful reminder of the need for unity. This is why I was unpleasantly surprised to read these posts by Batya, she of many blogs. I may disagree with Batya on some political issues, but the mere fact that a person respected in blogging community comes out with such unbridled attack at the current wave of protests is deeply unsettling.

The gist of Batya's critic is that the protests are a brainchild of the left that "is determined to convince, brainwash the Israeli public that they should be in power, not Likud's Binyamin Netanyahu." There is also evidence she brings up of a protester leveling his ire at the settlers who, according to him, are the main source of our troubles. Both Batya and the youngster tend to forget that it is all our successive governments, left and right, that supported and nurtured the settlement movement. Another bit of evidence offered by Batya is "My Israel, a right wing group tried to join on the condition that the National Anthem, Hativka would be sung, but the organizers refused". Joining on condition is a bit of a charade, I would say, but let it be.

The facts on the ground are a bit different. It doesn't take an especially trained eye to see the right wing kippa wearers mixing and mingling with the throng. It may take a more widely open eye and ears to know that the ex-settlers from the Gush Katif have their own tent among the other tents in Tel Aviv. And that there are West Banks settlers complaining about the high prices of the housing there. It shouldn't take a mathematician to understand that the current left, whatever is left of it, isn't able in the best of circumstances to get 50,000 - let alone 300,000 - protesters on the street (all over the country), as it happened last Saturday evening. And that IDF pensioners (also having their tents between the others) are not divided into parties, ethnic or other groups. And that Rabbi Lau is not one's typical example of the commie...

I have to repeat a quote from my own post here:

...the demonstrations have seen voters from Likud, Meretz and Hadash standing shoulder to shoulder; protesters with skullcaps and secular people, Jews and Arabs.
There is some truth, though, in the complaint voiced by Batya that the left parties have taken a great interest and are trying to "adopt" the protests. But the point is not that the left wingers caused the protest - they are busily hitching their wagons to it. While the right wing parties are missing the train.

And so do some settlers who, instead of looking for questions that unite us are busy inventing or rehashing  some political divides. This is bad - bad both for our phantom of unity that we seem unable to reach, bad for the protests that are pointing out real economic problems experienced by the middle class. And we better resolve this conundrum quickly - for our kids' sake.

P.S. I have seen this just after posting that one:

Settler leader visits Rothschild tent city in solidarity
Yesha Council chairman Danny Dayan: "Hardships of public don’t stop at Green Line”; expresses hope movement won't become politicized.
Me too, me too, Danny...

P.P.S and a good Tisha B'av reminder here.

7 comments:

Batya said...

Your saying "Both Batya and the youngster tend to forget that it is all our successive governments, left and right, that supported and nurtured the settlement movement" makes their "nurturing" like that of an abusive parent.  We haven't been "nurtured."
The organizers of the demonstrations are happy about the added numbers when some religious people show up, but one of their complaints is that there are too many religious people in the cities they want to live in.
When you read the fine print you'll see that they are for true social justice.  They want a secular Israel with socialist price controls.  The fact that they are dividing the country and financially their demands are problematic doesn't bother them.  THEY WANT WHAT THEY WANT. 
I work with everyone, but these people only want their mirror images.
Yes, it's sad and potentially tragic.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

I guess, Batya, that the issue of whether the settlements were nurtured or abused by the government(s) is not central and could be left aside for now.

Now, when you are saying: "The organizers of the demonstrations are happy about the added numbers when some religious people show up...", you are again showing that divide: the religious people are between the organizers.

I don't want to read what you call "fine print" if its source is that or another party. Who are people who want secular Israel and who wants socialist price controls? Are they the same people? Is secular (or not) Israel relevant at all to the problem at hand?

Do you personally prefer a country where prices are dictated not by healthy competition and free market but by a few families or companies jacking up the profits?

Batya, the main point in fact is that you are calling people who may disagree with you "these people" and not "my fellow Jews". This is more potentially tragic than everything else. Think about it.

Tisha B'av, Batya...

Pisa said...

Batya, you wrote:
"The fact that they are dividing the country and financially their demands are problematic doesn't bother them".

300,000 people showing up for demonstrations. To me it looks like the country is uniting, every saturday night a little bit more.

Criticizing social injustice - real or perceived - never divides. It's the injustice itself that's doing the job.

You think your side is being wronged? Go out there and talk to the people on the streets. Talk to the leftists, to the secular, to the religious. It's your people, Batya. Not everyone who disagree with you is your enemy. Dismissal of criticism as leftist conspiracy will only widen the gap and ultimately divide the society even more.

That the demands are financially problematic is of no importance in this context. Living has become financially problematic. What I find very problematic is that I buy less and less, but I pay for it more and more. Well, politicians should pay more for my vote, then. Like everything else in this country, the price for a governmental seat has gone up.

And what Snoopy said.

Noga said...

"It doesn't take an especially trained eye to see the right wing kippa wearers mixing and mingling with the throng."

Snoopy, with all due affection, you are doing your little bit to contribute to the dischord you are complaining about. One gets the impression that all "kippa wearers" are rightwing, and by implication (in a world enamoured with bleeding-heart Leftists and that considers "Right wing" as the personification of all evil)  that to be an observant Israeli Jew is to be rightwing and a bad person.

"And that there are West Banks settlers complaining about the high prices of the housing there."

Tell that to Michael Walzer who seems to think that

"This is a rebellion of the mainstream against the privileged sectors—most importantly, though few will say it, against the settlers and the ultra-orthodox."

And

"All this comes at the expense of the Israeli mainstream—of all Israelis, really, who live and work inside the Green Line. And who want to live and work inside the Green Line: They won’t be moved by the argument of rightwing members of the Knesset who say that there is plenty of cheap housing in the territories—the protesters should go there. "


http://www.tnr.com/article/world/93318/protests-israel-tel-aviv

To paraphrase Irving Howe, even the warmest heart and a thoughtful intelligence has a cold corner for settlers and religious Jews who happen to live in israel.

Other than that I have no quibbles with your post. What do you think, was it the success of the mothers' "uprising" against cottage cheese price hikes that served as a cue to the usually passive Israelis that things could be gotten through public action like this?

Dick Stanley said...

Interesting argument, guys, on this or any other day. Pity, though, that the religious are automatically pigeonholed as right wing. Some of them must be lefties or, even, gasp, middle-of-the-roaders. They certainly are in the U.S., left, I mean, what with the Methodists and the Presbyterians among the leaders of Israel boycotts. Also I thought this was Israel's silent majority against the politically-wired minorities? Obviously it's more complicated than that. So don't mind me, I'll just lurk and watch and listen. All very interesting, to be sure.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Well, Noga, thanks for your attention. Let me collect the remaining brain cells:

1. Most of the kippa wearers nowadays are more right-wing than otherwise, and I cannot change this basic fact. What would other people think about it could be important, but so what?

2. With all due respect to Michael Walzer, even the best of us sometimes bark up a wrong tree.

3. Yes, I think that the cottage cheese protest was a nice and timely trigger.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Hi Dick,

You are right in your observation re different political shades of religious folks, but still - as I said to Noga, the right wing is prevalent. I really wouldn't know the percentages, sorry.

As for the current protests: it indeed doesn't matter whether it's a right- or left-winger who is carrying the torch. I am trying to stress the point that it goes across the political spectrum.

Some people are unhappy with this fact, as you can see.